Why do Guilds fail? - Guild Wars Forums

Rocky Raccoon · May 07, 2007, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Some guilds seem to have staying power yet others seem to be fleeting. I am looking for opinions on why some seem to prosper while other just disappear. What are the main problems of the ones that fail and what do the lasting guilds do that keeps them going?

Medion · May 07, 2007, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Inactivity...if half the guild goes inactive it's not as much fun for the other half of the guild anymore. Obviously you could recruit by spamming in towns, but why would you want to do that?

Sofonisba · May 07, 2007, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Like Medion said, inactivity is a large factor, but there's nothing you can do about people not playing anymore.

Other things which (I assume) contribute to guilds failing are: non-responsive officers/leader; lack of basic organization; one obnoxious guild member running amok making people leave; indiscriminate recruitment/promotion; false promises and expectations.

Guilds that stay together and/or keep growing are made up of people who either a) know each other in real life from the start or b) have gotten to know each other through the game. They continue to be interested in playing the game, and want to play with one another, chat, fool around, help out, support, etc.

C noob · May 07, 2007, 04:32 PM // 16:32

I have recently moved from a very small guild who has a Guild leader

with tremendous knowledge of the game. Helpful too, give you items as well.

Sounds Good? Eh? We had good players who wanted to gvg and pvp.

But, guild Boss only likes PVE and getting titles.

All it took one day was for one mission of him "Instructing" some of us one

time too many and the members dropped off.Even his son left the guild.

The ones that were on everyday.This is where some of us lose interrest.

For me, I get online to Farm Greens/AB/and PVE.

But listen well...Keeping the game fun is by not instructing the same people

(you normaly play with) over and over in missions that they have done

manytimes before.

When you get new people extend yourselves to them make it fun. If you run

into people who dont know the game most will try to learn. Make it ok to fail

in pvp or whatever.

Joke abt it even.When some of us as officers or guild leaders take

the game too seriously it can quickly kill the interest newcomers and vets as

well.

Darkpower Alchemist · May 07, 2007, 05:29 PM // 17:29

My guild has been in existence now for 21 months. My core members are still the same. That was a big factor in staying power,imho. Also, I don't usually recruit at this point, unless it's someone I have played with regularly.

My officers may recruit in different ways, but usually the scream in towns theme gets you the guys that leave when the guild leader logs off. I don't encourage that mass recruitment theoligy. I say get people who like to play the game and are genuinely interested in your guild and its members.

I'm a serious guild leader, and as such, I let my officers do the recruiting, and I intervene when needed. I have 1 officer who is a "social butterfly". She handles most recruiting. That doesn't mean we always agree, but it definitely helps that I mind the business of being leader while she does what she does best, and that's being social.

In recent, some of my core officers have expressed the lack of desire to play, but after nearly 2 yrs, that is to be expected. Most of my members have been around now for 4-8 months, and my alliance has done some major changing since its beginings. I still have a steady alliance member who requests that my guild stays as lead guild, so I must be doing something right,I guess. Though I prefer to think small guilds are best, due to the fact that everyone has an identity, and in a large guild that isn't always recognized. Medium/small(25-35 members) guilds like mine are awesome with the right people in them. The problem of inactivity is always there, even with officers, but with solid fellowship and a strong Leader/Officers pool, a guild can stay strong and moderately active. Another problem is if people are in different timezones. That will certainly effect the membership. Most of my officers are either EST or PST, so that helps when I'm not on, yet I'm on at all times of the day and night when I'm not at work.

If the officers and the leader aren't on regularly, then the guild will fall apart without a doubt.

So, the major things that keep a guild together,imho, are consistency, strong leadership, and a friendly approach to members.

Nilator · May 07, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Inactivity and bad leadership, IMO.

Age · May 08, 2007, 12:30 AM // 00:30

It is so easy to go off and make you own guild is one reason and for the most part they may just not like the leader or the Name of the guild.It really has nothing to do with inactivety .I would look at the big ladder Guild of Treachouse Empire TE they placed really good on the ladder untill they crumbled and fell apart.It is still together but it is not the same and they were like Idiot Savants IQ.They were often neck and neck with each other on the ladder.

I would say if it is easy for a big PvP that does GvG to crumble it is way easier for a PvE guild to fail.I have been a leader for over 2 years and have had my share of leavers who I teach the game to and know a lot about builds.When this starts to happen it burns a leader out and it says this game has problem with retaining guilds.Those guilds that formed in beta 80% of them are no more and most were pvp oriented.

Xiaxhou of Trinity · May 08, 2007, 02:24 AM // 02:24

I think this should be stickied but not closed, more feedback on this topic would greatly advise new guilds and old guilds alike.

sticky pls
/signed

Cjad the Nord · May 08, 2007, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by C noob

I have recently moved from a very small guild who has a Guild leader

with tremendous knowledge of the game. Helpful too, give you items as well.

Sounds Good? Eh? We had good players who wanted to gvg and pvp.

But, guild Boss only likes PVE and getting titles.

All it took one day was for one mission of him "Instructing" some of us one

time too many and the members dropped off.Even his son left the guild.

That's why I'll give people the heads up on an area if someone has never gone before, rather then detailing every little detail to them and telling them how they should play their character. Plus, we (guild) dabble in everything, so if someone wants to do something, everyone is usually on board.

Small guilds can work, and very well. I'm currently loving our 11 member strong existence.

Div · May 08, 2007, 05:19 AM // 05:19

A small group that can stand playing guild wars with each other for long periods of time...or a large guild that keeps refreshing its members once they lose interest in the game is the way to get a guild to not fail.

ichigo_panty · May 08, 2007, 06:38 AM // 06:38

1) Leader has no control over members
2) Inactive members
3) Drama
4) No regular guild bonding/getalong events
5) No common aims/goals

Moxy79 · May 08, 2007, 06:03 PM // 18:03

The biggest problem that Ive seen in the guilds that I have been in/led is this. It is REALLY hard to find people who want to do anything...you have 500 people looking for guilds but what happens when they get into one?...um nothing...they dont talk...they dont participate in events. The only ones that usually do are the officers. We always recruited under the shotgun principle....invite anyone and everything...and out of 500...you'll get one good one.

"Look and Leavers" really annoy me because they join a guild look at it for 2 seconds and bail. And USUALLY they arent that good to begin with. They are looking for instant fame. Oooh if i hop into a 400 rank guild of COURSE it'll automatically make me good. Instead of giving things a chance and seeing if the people in the guild mesh well with you.

The best guilds out there (and yes im stereotyping) are made up of RL friends or people who play other games.

Which by the way is a good way to keep a guild interesting...hold a Battlefield 2 night...a counterstrike night...something along that lines...it breaks up the monotony and provides interest.

Sofonisba · May 08, 2007, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Now that I think on it, I feel I have to append my original answer. Not to get all Bill Clinton or anything, but it sort of depends on your definition of ???fail.???

The particular reason any person leaves a guild, will not necessarily be the guild???s downfall or indication of future failure. IE, change in guild focus, bossy guild leader, whatever. It???s only the reason one person leaves--which potentially can be an institutional problem, but many times also merely an irreconcilable difference between member and guild.

Under an arbitrary definition of ???failure??? I???m going to make up right now, a guild can only be said to fail when the last active member gives up on it and /disbands.

Vorianatriedes · May 08, 2007, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

It is so easy to go off and make you own guild is one reason and for the most part they may just not like the leader or the Name of the guild.It really has nothing to do with inactivety .I would look at the big ladder Guild of Treachouse Empire TE they placed really good on the ladder untill they crumbled and fell apart.It is still together but it is not the same and they were like Idiot Savants IQ.They were often neck and neck with each other on the ladder.

I would say if it is easy for a big PvP that does GvG to crumble it is way easier for a PvE guild to fail.I have been a leader for over 2 years and have had my share of leavers who I teach the game to and know a lot about builds.When this starts to happen it burns a leader out and it says this game has problem with retaining guilds.Those guilds that formed in beta 80% of them are no more and most were pvp oriented.

I agree it really burns you up when you spend ages training some one up and then once they feel they want a bigger guild they leave you as your guild is not big enough for them and no longer good enough. This happened to me recently with some I had pretty much helped on all the missions and once he left, I was going to quit the game and give up on the guild but a kind real life friend saved it and took over. Now the guild is thriving only I am bit worried about how he has done it as I feel the guild has way too many officers and has got big in a short period of time but he is doing a good job so I will let him keep to it. I just wish I had read this thread earlier about the PVP thing I will joke about it in the future. I think though a guild knowign two real life friends are runnign the guild gives the members a sense of security. Also dont give up on people who have left two people left us, but soon after my friend talked to them they came back as they realized ours was a better guild in the end than the one which promised them alot adn didnt deliver unliek us who does not promise much but delivers. Also he has a natural nack with people, most people envy.

sir lockt · May 09, 2007, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Since I disbandoned my guild this morning after 18 months I think I can be considered an "experience expert". First of all we had about 15 active months of this time excistance... why?

1) Friends and common goal
When we started this guild we did this with some of the best ingame friends we had. We shared a common goal and we all decided on giving up "rapid" promotions towards more established guilds and choice to build one ourselves.
2) Recruitment is very important. We did spam recruitment in the past, which made the bulk of our "less-active" members. My more preferred method was through proper introduction to our guild. Never promise people what you cannot give. And sometimes you fail in meeting expectations and sometimes people have wrong ones. If somebody leaves, get over it.
3) Build relationship, stimulate playing together, doing things together and most important have fun in what you do!

Why did it fail in the end?
1) lost interest, Some people will lose interest some people just want something different. In our case it where mostly GW leavers.
2) leadership transition, people believe if a leader is less active and searching for a new position something bad is going on and take conclusions of it.
3) People look for easy options, if it is hard for a guild to get 100 rank up, they switch to a guild which is already there.
4) Leadership, like point 2 points out leadership is very important. Without guidance many seems not be able to do things themselves or have the impression they cant.

All small things add up and result in some core leavers. In our case the core leavers had a valid point and made a decission leaving, which i can only respect them for. Finally this event resulted in an avalance of leavers, without reason effectively killing guild activity.

Finally this brings me to the end...
5) guilds disband, because it was good enough! Guilds need to fade out to be replaced by newer. And this doesnt need to be for the better, but it is how it works. Accept it if your guild collapses, dont try find somebody to blame for it, try to keep the fun in the game... wherever you go

You dont want your guild to be disbanded?
Just DONT PvP then

Regards

Poison Ivy · May 09, 2007, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir lockt

You dont want your guild to be disbanded?
Just DONT PvP then

Regards

...Put the booze down

the_jos · May 09, 2007, 07:12 AM // 07:12

There are several reasons I have seen so far in the game.
The number one is inactivity.
This one is closely followed by guilds that have people online, but don't play together.
Furtermore, lack of common goal is a killer. We lost a few good members because 'the guild' was moving towards PvP and they wanted to DoA.
The guild was too small to fit in both, so people could not team up and left.
This again can be seen as 'inactivity'.

I know leadership and powerplay can be problems, I have heard that from several people.
I think GvG / HA can be a problem if the guild is not able to put good teams together. Good players that are very competetive might leave for higher ranked guilds.

My current guild was founded in early December 2005, so I think it's one of the survivors.
The reason?
Good leadership, people work close together and know each other.
Also, a lot of the 'old guys/girls' went to play an other game, but the guild was able to continue (new blood is not always bad).
Also common goals and a lot of fun together.
We don't spam recruitment in game, and only once in a while on forums.
Most of the time we play with people and during the play they might get an invitation if we feel right.
One of the more important recruitment tools imho is the friends list.
If you play a lot with people together and like them, put them on friends list (I just ask if they don't mind). If you keep running into each other, it might be worth to ask how they feel about changing guilds.
I know one or two members of LotU were already on my friends list before I joined.

Yanman.be · May 09, 2007, 09:35 AM // 09:35

I join a pve guild, make it rank 500, and then leave. kjoo kjoo.

Sofonisba · May 09, 2007, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

I join a pve guild, make it rank 500, and then leave. kjoo kjoo.

Woot for off-topic!

??? unless it is on-topic and the guilds fail after you leave? Lol jk

mikkel · May 09, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Unless you're very lucky, or forming a new guild with people you already know, the typical player who is eligible for recruitment to your guild fits into the following;

1) Plays frequently
2) Not an idiot
3) Sociable

Pick two.

May 07, 2007, 02:24 PM // 14:24	#1
Rocky Raccoon Desert Nomad Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Massachusetts, USA Guild: Guardians of the Cosmos Profession: R/Mo	Why do Guilds fail? Some guilds seem to have staying power yet others seem to be fleeting. I am looking for opinions on why some seem to prosper while other just disappear. What are the main problems of the ones that fail and what do the lasting guilds do that keeps them going?

May 07, 2007, 04:32 PM // 16:32	#4
C noob Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA. Guild: Tank Masters [TM] Profession: Me/Mo	keep it fun...Know-IT-All's Not allways fun I have recently moved from a very small guild who has a Guild leader with tremendous knowledge of the game. Helpful too, give you items as well. Sounds Good? Eh? We had good players who wanted to gvg and pvp. But, guild Boss only likes PVE and getting titles. All it took one day was for one mission of him "Instructing" some of us one time too many and the members dropped off.Even his son left the guild. The ones that were on everyday.This is where some of us lose interrest. For me, I get online to Farm Greens/AB/and PVE. But listen well...Keeping the game fun is by not instructing the same people (you normaly play with) over and over in missions that they have done manytimes before. When you get new people extend yourselves to them make it fun. If you run into people who dont know the game most will try to learn. Make it ok to fail in pvp or whatever. Joke abt it even.When some of us as officers or guild leaders take the game too seriously it can quickly kill the interest newcomers and vets as well.

May 07, 2007, 05:29 PM // 17:29	#5
Darkpower Alchemist Jungle Guide Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NYC Guild: The Circle Of Nine[NINE] Profession: E/N	What I think makes a guild stay together My guild has been in existence now for 21 months. My core members are still the same. That was a big factor in staying power,imho. Also, I don't usually recruit at this point, unless it's someone I have played with regularly. My officers may recruit in different ways, but usually the scream in towns theme gets you the guys that leave when the guild leader logs off. I don't encourage that mass recruitment theoligy. I say get people who like to play the game and are genuinely interested in your guild and its members. I'm a serious guild leader, and as such, I let my officers do the recruiting, and I intervene when needed. I have 1 officer who is a "social butterfly". She handles most recruiting. That doesn't mean we always agree, but it definitely helps that I mind the business of being leader while she does what she does best, and that's being social. In recent, some of my core officers have expressed the lack of desire to play, but after nearly 2 yrs, that is to be expected. Most of my members have been around now for 4-8 months, and my alliance has done some major changing since its beginings. I still have a steady alliance member who requests that my guild stays as lead guild, so I must be doing something right,I guess. Though I prefer to think small guilds are best, due to the fact that everyone has an identity, and in a large guild that isn't always recognized. Medium/small(25-35 members) guilds like mine are awesome with the right people in them. The problem of inactivity is always there, even with officers, but with solid fellowship and a strong Leader/Officers pool, a guild can stay strong and moderately active. Another problem is if people are in different timezones. That will certainly effect the membership. Most of my officers are either EST or PST, so that helps when I'm not on, yet I'm on at all times of the day and night when I'm not at work. If the officers and the leader aren't on regularly, then the guild will fall apart without a doubt. So, the major things that keep a guild together,imho, are consistency, strong leadership, and a friendly approach to members.

May 08, 2007, 12:30 AM // 00:30	#7
Age Hall Hero Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: California Canada/BC Guild: STG Administrator Profession: Mo/	It is so easy to go off and make you own guild is one reason and for the most part they may just not like the leader or the Name of the guild.It really has nothing to do with inactivety .I would look at the big ladder Guild of Treachouse Empire TE they placed really good on the ladder untill they crumbled and fell apart.It is still together but it is not the same and they were like Idiot Savants IQ.They were often neck and neck with each other on the ladder. I would say if it is easy for a big PvP that does GvG to crumble it is way easier for a PvE guild to fail.I have been a leader for over 2 years and have had my share of leavers who I teach the game to and know a lot about builds.When this starts to happen it burns a leader out and it says this game has problem with retaining guilds.Those guilds that formed in beta 80% of them are no more and most were pvp oriented. Last edited by Age; May 08, 2007 at 12:34 AM // 00:34..

May 08, 2007, 06:03 PM // 18:03	#12
Moxy79 Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PA Guild: Moxys Midnight Raiders Profession: Mo/N	Guild activity The biggest problem that Ive seen in the guilds that I have been in/led is this. It is REALLY hard to find people who want to do anything...you have 500 people looking for guilds but what happens when they get into one?...um nothing...they dont talk...they dont participate in events. The only ones that usually do are the officers. We always recruited under the shotgun principle....invite anyone and everything...and out of 500...you'll get one good one. "Look and Leavers" really annoy me because they join a guild look at it for 2 seconds and bail. And USUALLY they arent that good to begin with. They are looking for instant fame. Oooh if i hop into a 400 rank guild of COURSE it'll automatically make me good. Instead of giving things a chance and seeing if the people in the guild mesh well with you. The best guilds out there (and yes im stereotyping) are made up of RL friends or people who play other games. Which by the way is a good way to keep a guild interesting...hold a Battlefield 2 night...a counterstrike night...something along that lines...it breaks up the monotony and provides interest.

May 07, 2007, 03:23 PM // 15:23	#2
Medion Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Netherlands	Inactivity...if half the guild goes inactive it's not as much fun for the other half of the guild anymore. Obviously you could recruit by spamming in towns, but why would you want to do that?

May 07, 2007, 04:25 PM // 16:25	#3
Sofonisba Desert Nomad Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Tucson, AZ Guild: The Black Hand Gang [BHG] and The Black Helm Gang [BHeG]	Like Medion said, inactivity is a large factor, but there's nothing you can do about people not playing anymore. Other things which (I assume) contribute to guilds failing are: non-responsive officers/leader; lack of basic organization; one obnoxious guild member running amok making people leave; indiscriminate recruitment/promotion; false promises and expectations. Guilds that stay together and/or keep growing are made up of people who either a) know each other in real life from the start or b) have gotten to know each other through the game. They continue to be interested in playing the game, and want to play with one another, chat, fool around, help out, support, etc.

May 07, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00	#6
Nilator Jungle Guide Join Date: Dec 2005 Profession: Mo/	Inactivity and bad leadership, IMO.

May 08, 2007, 02:24 AM // 02:24	#8
Xiaxhou of Trinity Krytan Explorer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: CA Guild: Scythes of Chaos [SoC], [PNOY] alliance guild forums: http://socguild.cjb.net Profession: E/	I think this should be stickied but not closed, more feedback on this topic would greatly advise new guilds and old guilds alike. sticky pls /signed

May 08, 2007, 05:19 AM // 05:19	#10
Div I like yumy food! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Where I can eat yumy food Guild: Dead Alley [dR] Profession: Mo/R	A small group that can stand playing guild wars with each other for long periods of time...or a large guild that keeps refreshing its members once they lose interest in the game is the way to get a guild to not fail.

May 08, 2007, 06:38 AM // 06:38	#11
ichigo_panty Krytan Explorer Join Date: Nov 2006 Guild: Exiled And Forsaken[EnF]	1) Leader has no control over members 2) Inactive members 3) Drama 4) No regular guild bonding/getalong events 5) No common aims/goals

May 08, 2007, 10:27 PM // 22:27	#13
Sofonisba Desert Nomad Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Tucson, AZ Guild: The Black Hand Gang [BHG] and The Black Helm Gang [BHeG]	Now that I think on it, I feel I have to append my original answer. Not to get all Bill Clinton or anything, but it sort of depends on your definition of ???fail.??? The particular reason any person leaves a guild, will not necessarily be the guild???s downfall or indication of future failure. IE, change in guild focus, bossy guild leader, whatever. It???s only the reason one person leaves--which potentially can be an institutional problem, but many times also merely an irreconcilable difference between member and guild. Under an arbitrary definition of ???failure??? I???m going to make up right now, a guild can only be said to fail when the last active member gives up on it and /disbands.

May 09, 2007, 06:18 AM // 06:18	#15
sir lockt Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: The Netherlands Guild: Lightning Strikes Twice Profession: Mo/	Since I disbandoned my guild this morning after 18 months I think I can be considered an "experience expert". First of all we had about 15 active months of this time excistance... why? 1) Friends and common goal When we started this guild we did this with some of the best ingame friends we had. We shared a common goal and we all decided on giving up "rapid" promotions towards more established guilds and choice to build one ourselves. 2) Recruitment is very important. We did spam recruitment in the past, which made the bulk of our "less-active" members. My more preferred method was through proper introduction to our guild. Never promise people what you cannot give. And sometimes you fail in meeting expectations and sometimes people have wrong ones. If somebody leaves, get over it. 3) Build relationship, stimulate playing together, doing things together and most important have fun in what you do! Why did it fail in the end? 1) lost interest, Some people will lose interest some people just want something different. In our case it where mostly GW leavers. 2) leadership transition, people believe if a leader is less active and searching for a new position something bad is going on and take conclusions of it. 3) People look for easy options, if it is hard for a guild to get 100 rank up, they switch to a guild which is already there. 4) Leadership, like point 2 points out leadership is very important. Without guidance many seems not be able to do things themselves or have the impression they cant. All small things add up and result in some core leavers. In our case the core leavers had a valid point and made a decission leaving, which i can only respect them for. Finally this event resulted in an avalance of leavers, without reason effectively killing guild activity. Finally this brings me to the end... 5) guilds disband, because it was good enough! Guilds need to fade out to be replaced by newer. And this doesnt need to be for the better, but it is how it works. Accept it if your guild collapses, dont try find somebody to blame for it, try to keep the fun in the game... wherever you go You dont want your guild to be disbanded? Just DONT PvP then Regards

May 09, 2007, 07:12 AM // 07:12	#17
the_jos Forge Runner Join Date: Jun 2006 Guild: Hard Mode Legion [HML] Profession: N/	There are several reasons I have seen so far in the game. The number one is inactivity. This one is closely followed by guilds that have people online, but don't play together. Furtermore, lack of common goal is a killer. We lost a few good members because 'the guild' was moving towards PvP and they wanted to DoA. The guild was too small to fit in both, so people could not team up and left. This again can be seen as 'inactivity'. I know leadership and powerplay can be problems, I have heard that from several people. I think GvG / HA can be a problem if the guild is not able to put good teams together. Good players that are very competetive might leave for higher ranked guilds. My current guild was founded in early December 2005, so I think it's one of the survivors. The reason? Good leadership, people work close together and know each other. Also, a lot of the 'old guys/girls' went to play an other game, but the guild was able to continue (new blood is not always bad). Also common goals and a lot of fun together. We don't spam recruitment in game, and only once in a while on forums. Most of the time we play with people and during the play they might get an invitation if we feel right. One of the more important recruitment tools imho is the friends list. If you play a lot with people together and like them, put them on friends list (I just ask if they don't mind). If you keep running into each other, it might be worth to ask how they feel about changing guilds. I know one or two members of LotU were already on my friends list before I joined.

May 09, 2007, 09:35 AM // 09:35	#18
Yanman.be Banned Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Belgium Guild: [ROSE] Profession: A/	I join a pve guild, make it rank 500, and then leave. kjoo kjoo.

May 09, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31	#20
mikkel Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Oct 2005	Unless you're very lucky, or forming a new guild with people you already know, the typical player who is eligible for recruitment to your guild fits into the following; 1) Plays frequently 2) Not an idiot 3) Sociable Pick two.